My name is Katie Roberts, and I am writing this statement to bring to light the spiritual, psychological, and sexual abuse that I suffered at the hands of my professor, Dr. Art Azurdia, when I was a student at Western Seminary in Portland, OR from 2013–2018. I am making this statement at this time because Dr. Azurdia has returned to an influential ministry position and I am concerned that others may be in danger of suffering a similar experience due to the lack of public exposure of his abuse.

Dr. Azurdia’s Initial Deception (Sept. 2013–Jan. 2014)

I met Dr. Azurdia in September 2013 as a student in his homiletics class. As a pastor’s wife and mom of three, I loved teaching the Bible to women in our church and wanted to learn to do it better. At that time, Dr. Azurdia was also the pastor of Trinity Church of Portland. I admired him because so many people praised him and because of his reformed theology and careful interpretation of Scripture. He also seemed to truly value women. At Western, women were encouraged to take preaching classes, and Dr. Azurdia defended us to men who expressed uncertainty about that. He singled me out on the first night of class, awarding me a candy bar he’d promised to the student who asked the best question.

On September 17th I emailed Dr. Azurdia to ask about an assignment. We conversed a few times about Scripture passages and difficult situations in our respective churches. On September 29th, he asked me about my favorite movies and music. Believing he wanted friendship, I answered eagerly. He then wrote that he’d had the worst year of his life, including being hurt by a longtime friend.

On October 1st, Dr. Azurdia emailed to ask if he could call me. I was uncomfortable with this suggestion and said I was busy. He asked again, assuring me it would only take five minutes. He called, and we had a short conversation. That request was my first indication that something was off, and I told my husband, Richard. He was silent in response, which I interpreted as indifference. (At that point in our marriage, although Richard and I loved one another exclusively, we did not communicate well. We were both too busy in separate ministries, and Richard was not one to open up about his emotional needs.  He later explained to me that he struggled to address issues with me out of a fear of making me feel incapable of handling it on my own.)

Dr. Azurdia continued to email me that first week in October. He told me that he needed someone outside his church in whom he could confide and that he wanted me to be that person. Then he asked to call me “My Katherine” and told me that I made his heart race. I said I was not comfortable with him calling me that, but he assured me he meant it like a father to a daughter. He also called me “Sweetheart” in class.

Unbeknownst to me, Richard had been reading my email correspondences with Dr. Azurdia. He seemed distant, so I asked what was wrong. Richard told me he’d read my emails and that he was concerned by Dr. Azurdia’s request to call me “My Katherine” and his statements about making his heart race. I was angry with him for violating my privacy, and, in that anger, I believed that I cared about Dr. Azurdia but that Richard did not. I changed my password so that he could no longer access my emails, an action which I now greatly regret.

A few days after that, Richard called Dr. Azurdia to discuss his emails. Dr. Azurdia explained that he thought of me as a daughter, and he reassured Richard that the last thing he wanted was to come between us in our marriage. Richard believed that Dr. Azurdia was a naïve, older man who didn’t understand how his emails might be interpreted. Richard offered to provide the listening ear Dr. Azurdia said he needed, but he replied that he had other men in his church with whom he could confide. Richard was still uncomfortable, but felt that he was probably being too critical.

At the same time, Dr. Azurdia continued to email me. He encouraged me to open up to him, vowing to never take advantage of me in my vulnerability. Because of his positions as a seminary professor and pastor, and because he embodied a kind authoritativeness for which I longed, I trusted him. Later in October, Dr. Azurdia took me to lunch and pressed me to share my experiences of suffering. I told him about the pain of losing my father in a car accident at the age of four, my childhood sexual abuse by a non-family member, and the struggles in my marriage. He did not merely provide a listening ear but offered to be the father figure for whom I yearned. He regularly called me “Little Girl” and “Baby Girl.” The best way I can describe it is to say that he felt like home to me – a safe refuge. Over the course of multiple conversations, Dr. Azurdia gained access to the deepest, most tender places in my soul. Once that occurred, I was petrified of losing him—a fear connected to losing my own father. Dr. Azurdia intensified that fear by alternating between drawing near in warmth and then withdrawing in cold indifference.

Near the end of October, Dr. Azurdia called me again. He said that his wife had rejected him years ago, and now they only lived together half the time. He explained that he had “fallen in love with me.” He claimed to have never told anyone else about his broken relationship with his wife, nor had he ever told any woman he was “in love” with her. His openness appealed to my desire to have a man open up about his emotional needs to me. Nonetheless, while I expressed sympathy, I told Dr. Azurdia that Richard and I did have a close relationship. Dr. Azurdia is much older than me, and I thought of him as a father. He reassured me that he wasn’t asking for anything but just wanted to share.

Over the next two months, Dr. Azurdia continued to take advantage of my compassion in many ways. He described himself as a man who gave everything to the work of preaching at the expense of being known by anyone. He said that he needed someone to belong to, and he repeatedly asked me to give him an exclusive place in my heart. When I insisted that only Richard could have that, he argued that he wasn’t trying to take Richard’s place (although I now believe that he was). Dr. Azurdia pressed for more relational intimacy by sharing his childhood nickname with me and wanting me to call him that. He explained that he was starved for physical touch, but he promised that what he wanted wasn’t sexual.

My response was to want him to know God’s love and to commit myself as the person who would finally care for him unconditionally. Dr. Azurdia convinced me that he needed me, and because I did not want him to experience the pain I felt losing my father, I became devoted to him. Thinking no one else understood him, I was protective of him, which also guaranteed that I would not expose him.

However, throughout November and December 2013, Dr. Azurdia continued to say and do things that made me uncomfortable. He asked me to come to his Western Seminary office and there he told me that he’d “reached the point of arousal.” I was shocked and I physically stepped back. He then said that he didn’t want to make me uncomfortable, but he did not take back his words. During another professor/student meeting in his office, he told me I was beautiful. When I told him that I did not think he should say that to me, he told me that I was “gnostic” and “spiritually undeveloped” because I didn’t understand that God made our physical bodies and therefore it was godly for him to comment on mine. He called me by the nickname “Gnostic Princess.”

Dr. Azurdia also continued to ask for a romantic relationship without sexual contact, and I argued that I only wanted friendship. Later in fall 2013 he asked me to come to his house to discuss it. Once again, I initially resisted, but he said that we couldn’t talk about it at the seminary because someone might overhear. He explained that no one would understand. He also reassured me that he often had students over. When I arrived at his house, however, I discovered that he had a red rose and a romantic card for me. I told him that I wasn’t comfortable with those things.

That fall, there were times when Dr. Azurdia agreed that he wanted only friendship, but then he would change and say he wanted romance. When I pointed out his inconsistencies, he claimed he didn’t remember conversations we’d had and blamed me for being indecisive or even mentally unstable. I believed him. I felt confused and spent a lot of time in a dazed stupor. I thought that I was a temptation for him, that he couldn’t control himself because he was starved for affection, and that I should remove myself from his life as an act of sacrificial love. So, in January 2014, I told him that we should not have any more personal contact with each other. He asked me not to forget him and to continue to hold onto him in my heart.

Between January 2014–October 2014, Dr. Azurdia and I did not have any personal contact with each other. Because of the damage already done to me by Dr. Azurdia and my emotional dependency on him, I felt great pain and there were times I wished I would die. Because what happened was a secret, I felt cut off from other relationships in my life. And because Dr. Azurdia asked me to hold onto him in my heart, I felt guilty for severing personal contact with him. I believed that we had both resisted temptation, and I asked God to “redeem” the situation by allowing us to do ministry together. I prayed for Dr. Azurdia and cried about the situation every day.

An Initial Exposure of Dr. Azurdia’s Deception (Nov. 2014–Feb. 2015)

In fall 2014, I ran into Dr. Azurdia in the parking lot of Western Seminary. He told me he was having trouble securing a speaker for one of his events. I knew the speaker personally, so I offered to help. After the speaker said yes, Dr. Azurdia called me and said he and another colleague wanted to take me to lunch to thank me. A short time later, Dr. Azurdia called and shared that he missed the closeness we had had. I still felt extreme emotional pain and fear when separated from him, and I didn’t want to lose contact again. I still hoped we could be close friends, but he quickly pushed again for romance. His pressure made me uncomfortable, and I didn’t want to betray Richard. I wanted a way out of the situation once more.

I also began to suspect that Dr. Azurdia had been in a similar situation with another woman under his spiritual authority before he knew me, and that he had had sexual contact with her. I felt guilty for suspecting him since he said I was the first woman he’d told about his wife’s rejection, as well as the first woman with whom he was “in love.” However, I couldn’t get the thought out of my head, so I asked him about it. He admitted that he had had long-term sexual contact with her. He said that if his family found out he would either shoot himself in the head or drive his car off a cliff. He was extremely angry with me for asking about her. He claimed to have learned a valuable lesson about sexual immorality, and he explained that his earlier failure would protect us from going down the same road. I was intimidated by his anger, and I felt compassion for him. I reassured him that God forgave him.

I was deeply disturbed by Dr. Azurdia’s deception. It wasn’t true that he’d given everything to the work of preaching at the expense of being known by anyone. It wasn’t true that I was the first person in whom he confided about his broken relationship with his wife. It wasn’t true that I was the first woman with whom he’d been “in love.” He’d described himself as someone who didn’t struggle with sexual sin, and that wasn’t true either. The picture he’d given me of himself was false.

His admission did provide the escape I wanted, so I cut off personal contact again. During that phone conversation, Dr. Azurdia claimed that he still wanted to help me with ministry opportunities. However, when I called him to discuss those, he was furious. It was clear to me that if I wasn’t willing to have a romantic relationship with him, then he did not want to talk to me or help me as a student. I felt guilty for “abandoning” Dr. Azurdia.

Dr. Azurdia’s suicidal threats made me afraid to expose what I knew to anyone else, and so I tried to process his deception alone. Because Dr. Azurdia claimed to be a godly man, and because everyone else thought he was, too, I couldn’t categorize the things I learned about him. Dr. Azurdia made it sound like he and the other woman had both been needy, had understandably found solace in one another, but then had realized it was wrong and moved on. He said that it was reasonable for someone to lie about a sexual sin, and reassured me that he had never lied about anything else. He also claimed to be a victim of this woman’s manipulation. I did not realize that his explanation was also a deception, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I still thought he was a broken, yet genuine, Christian man.

Dr. Azurdia and I did not have any personal contact with each other spring 2015 through fall 2015.

Ongoing Contact with Dr. Azurdia (Winter 2016–Summer 2017)

In January 2016, Dr. Azurdia called and asked me to meet with a woman in his church to give her advice about a Bible study she wanted to teach. I still felt great emotional pain while separated from him, and I continued to feel isolated from others in my life. Therefore, I was relieved to hear from him. I thought this was God “redeeming” the situation through ministry opportunities, so I agreed. Later in spring 2016 at the seminary, Dr. Azurdia asked me to lunch. He drove, and on the way back, he told me that he was still in love with me. I told him that I was emotionally attached to him, which I had never shared with him before. He wanted us to stop trying to define our relationship and to have regular personal contact. He reassured me that he knew any sexual component would be wrong.

For the next year, we communicated daily. This happened primarily via texts or phone calls, but I went to his house about once a month when his wife was gone. Much of our conversation was about preaching and other ministry. He helped me grieve my father’s death and advised me on how to love my autistic son well. However, Dr. Azurdia also pressured me to admit that I was in love with him, saying my denial was self-deception. The combination of helpful input and pressure to have a romantic relationship was disorienting and confusing. I was convinced that I was in love with him, and he taught me that my feelings were not wrong. He explained that there were grey areas in Christian ethics, that life was “complicated,” and that sometimes people just “fell in love.” I believed him because I trusted him as a Christian pastor and professor; his teaching had influenced me greatly. His words had created a false, alternate reality in which I lived. At that point, he still told me we shouldn’t act our feelings sexually. He gave me jewelry and other gifts, sent me love songs, and suggested romantic movies for us to watch. He told me that the purpose of those things was for me to remember him and think of him all the time. One song said, “I want you to need me like the air you breathe.” He also initiated inappropriate physical contact with me, like snuggling, tickling, and rubbing my feet.

Dr. Azurdia’s Overt Sexual Abuse (Summer 2017–June 2018)

One day when I was at Dr. Azurdia’s house in summer 2017, he asked to touch my breasts. I said no, but a few minutes later he did it anyway. I thought, “He must have not heard me or that must have been an accident.” I looked at him in surprise, and he said, “Don’t let me be like one of the bad men who hurt you in the past.” His statement made me think that saying no again would make him feel like a bad man, something I didn’t want to do. It also made me feel like it was my responsibility to stop him, but I didn’t say more because I felt paralyzed. I later learned that my childhood sexual abuse created a pattern in which I would express discomfort but, despite my protestations, the sexual violation would happen anyway. My experiences taught me that the voice of my abuser overrode my own, and I felt like my words were powerless. Dr. Azurdia reassured me that we were not committing adultery; he said that the Bible relegates adultery to sexual intercourse alone, so it was okay as long as we did not cross that line (which we never did). Believing that his opinion on God’s Word was more authoritative than mine, I doubted myself instead of him. Dr. Azurdia’s initial act was the first in a pattern of increasingly worse sexual abuse that lasted through June 2018. His actions continued to violate more boundaries, to which I responded with initial resistance and then submission.

I did not understand that Dr. Azurdia was abusing me, although I now know that he was. I thought I was the one to blame for what was happening. My Christian middle school wrongly taught me that women were responsible for men’s sexual temptations. In addition, Dr. Azurdia implied that I was responsible to bring an end to his abusive acts, and I tried. I told Dr. Azurdia that I felt guilty and wanted to stop many times that summer and fall. Before the overt sexual abuse had initially begun, he had always reassured me that we would only do things with which I was comfortable. However, his responses later showed me that was not true. When I told him that I did not want to engage in sexual acts anymore, he was furious and accused me of being someone who “damaged people” and “got my jollies by teasing him.” I cowered at his anger and felt paralyzed again. When I got up to leave, he changed. He fell to his knees crying and said that it would be psychologically damaging to lose sexual intimacy again. I believed him to be emotionally fragile from previous rejection, and I did not want to damage him further. His words caused me to feel obligated to give him sexual gratification. When I pointed out that at one point Dr. Azurdia himself had said it would be wrong for us to have sexual contact, he acted like I had misunderstood him. He questioned my memory and grip on reality, and I believed him once again.

Dr. Azurdia’s violation of my boundaries, his anger and self-pity, and his questioning of my thinking were destructive and exhausting. In order to ease my extreme tension, I wanted to stop resisting and let him make all of the decisions. But I thought that if I did that entirely, I would completely lose my own identity. Like someone caught in quicksand, it seemed like the more I struggled to get out of the situation, the more stuck I became. I didn’t think I could tell anyone, because I knew it would deeply hurt Richard, I was concerned that Dr. Azurdia would kill himself, and I felt like I needed him still. Carrying the secret of what he was doing to me also made it seem like there was a glass barrier between me and everyone else, and I didn’t know how to break through it. Because I felt like disagreeing with Dr. Azurdia was destroying my mind, I told God that I was going to stop resisting outwardly, but inwardly I cried out to my heavenly Father to rescue me.

God Rescued Me from Dr. Azurdia’s Abuse

God heard my cries and came to my rescue. In December 2017, I googled my symptoms (“I feel like I’m losing my mind and I’m doing things I would never do”), and one website noted that I was probably being manipulated. A light went on. I discovered cult expert Steven Hassan, who explained how cult leaders use psychological manipulation to control members. It felt like he was talking about me: I was in a cult of one and Dr. Azurdia was the leader. I realized that my thoughts were not my own but were being shaped by Dr. Azurdia’s suggestions and teaching. Over the next few months, I started to write down things Dr. Azurdia said in an attempt to trust my own memory again. I also found Harriet Braiker’s book Who’s Pulling Your Strings? I discovered that manipulation only worked because there was something I was afraid to lose. For me, that was Dr. Azurdia himself. Ellen Dykas’s Sexual Sanity for Women taught me about co-dependency. Deep down, however, I found that my relationship with Jesus was actually the most important thing to me. Eventually, I told God that I was willing to give up everything in order to be set free. Dr. Azurdia’s overt sexual abuse continued as I privately processed all of this.

In June 2018, with some renewed clarity, I told Dr. Azurdia that I would no longer come to his house or have any sexual contact with him. He responded by seeming to respect my wishes and then, in the middle of a tea shop, touched my buttocks and said, “Can I still do that?” I was deeply ashamed to reveal what had happened, especially my own broken emotional neediness. I failed to see that the key was to bring everything into the light.

Thankfully, and by God’s great mercy, Richard became increasingly suspicious. He found a journal I’d written about Dr. Azurdia and saw on our cell phone record that Dr. Azurdia and I talked daily. The same night I got home from the tea shop, Richard asked me pointed questions, and I was ready to tell him everything. Although he was deeply wounded and appropriately angry with Dr. Azurdia, Richard responded with compassion. He told me that I never needed to be ashamed in front of him, and he loved me in a way that demonstrated Jesus’s tender love for his people. Richard’s continued love has been an integral part of my healing. With counseling, our communication improved, we prioritized time together, and we grew closer once again. The rest of my family and many friends responded with compassion as well.

Bringing Dr. Azurdia’s Abuse into the Light (June 2018–Present)

The next day, Richard contacted Dr. Azurdia’s elders at Trinity Church. Richard called Dr. Azurdia, too, who insisted he had not committed adultery with me. When Richard gave him details about the sexual acts I described, Dr. Azurdia repeatedly replied, “Give me time to think.” A few days later, with one of his own elders on the phone, Dr. Azurdia called Richard to “confess.” He made excuses, saying that our “relationship” had started innocently, that we hadn’t intended for it to happen, and that we prayed together for Richard. Dr. Azurdia’s elders removed him from his pastoral position. Dr. Azurdia left the church and posted his own “Open Letter of Confession” online.

Dr. Azurdia resigned from his position at Western Seminary. Richard and I were concerned when Western did not make any public announcement. We grew even more concerned when someone shared a letter from the president to students. It did not mention that Dr. Azurdia’s resignation was due to anything sexual or to an abuse of power. It also stated that it would be inappropriate for students to comment about the situation publicly and requested that students be restrained in asking for additional information or talking about it outside of Western’s own student services personnel. We thought this letter would discourage other students who might have been abused from coming forward, and we thought the lack of a public statement left others vulnerable to Dr. Azurdia’s abuse in the future. We requested a meeting with the Western Seminary Board of Trustees, and we, along with an elder from our church, met with two of them in early August 2018. I gave a detailed account of Dr. Azurdia’s abuse, which they believed and acknowledged. We asked them to make a public statement that, at minimum, explained that Dr. Azurdia’s resignation was due to sexual contact between a professor and student. We hoped that this information would enable others to see that there had been an abuse of power from a position of spiritual authority. The Board declined to make any additional statements, reassuring us that they would handle it internally.

Richard and I are both alumni of Western Seminary. We have benefitted from their training, and we have many faithful brothers and sisters in Christ there. However, we do not believe that Western responded appropriately in this situation. We hope that they respond differently to our situation now, as well as to others in the future. We are asking God to bring real and lasting change to the Church of which we are a part.

***Update May 2022: Western Seminary contacted me after my May 2021 statement. At first I thought the seminary might be willing to do what was right, but they ended up doing further harm to me. Although they again privately called his behavior “abuse,” they never made any public statement.

When everything came to light in June 2018, I was employed by The Gospel Coalition (TGC) as Co-Director of the Women's Training Network. I contacted them via email, and said I had committed adultery (which I believed at the time) and needed to resign. They put Richard and me in contact with the President of TGC. When we spoke to him, I told him that I had committed adultery, but I also told him that it was with my seminary professor and that it was abusive and manipulative. He told me that he thought it was a good sign that I recognized both of those so early on, and he advised me to speak publicly about my sin alone. He believed that others would speak about Dr. Azurdia and then people would put two and two together. He also said that he needed to inform the TGC Council Members and release a public statement. I later saw that a public statement had been made about me online, which only mentioned that I had confessed to a "ministry disqualifying sin - an adulterous relationship."

Richard and I acted on the TGC President’s advice. When we spoke at our church about what happened, I repented for what I believed I had done wrong, while Richard addressed Dr. Azurdia’s wolfish mistreatment of me (without using his name). We now believe the TGC President’s advice was unwise. We later learned that the word “adultery” is inaccurate in situations of abuse of power, and we believe that victims should be encouraged to talk about their abuse in order to heal and to protect others. In addition, no one did speak publicly about Dr. Azurdia’s abuse, which meant that the only voice speaking about it was his own. The dangers of this became clear to us when we saw that Dr. Azurdia was scheduled to speak at the Shepherd’s Tent Word Conference in June 2021 with a TGC council member. We also discovered that TGC still had Dr. Azurdia listed under their “Resource Library” page (this has since been removed).

Richard and I are very concerned that the lack of public information about Dr. Azurdia’s abuse puts others at risk. Therefore, in February 2021, we contacted TGC’s current President and TGC’s Editorial Director. I disclosed the details of Dr. Azurdia's abuse to them (which I had not yet given to anyone at TGC) and we asked them to either take down or amend TGC’s inaccurate statement about me. We also asked them to share my disclosure with the TGC council member scheduled to speak with Dr. Azurdia. They believed me and told us they would respond to us after they discussed the matter internally. A month later they contacted us again and removed the statement upon our request.

We believe that TGC should have handled our situation more thoroughly and carefully than they did. We believe that they should not have put up the initial statement, and that they should have consulted us before making it public. In addition, when we contacted them this year, we believe they should have offered to take down the statement before having internal discussions, and that they should have gotten back to us more quickly.

***Update May 2022: At the time of my initial statement (May 2021), I had asked Julius Kim (current TGC president) and Collin Hansen (now current Vice President and Editor in Chief) to consider correcting their false narrative about me in two ways. I asked them to write a new public statement correcting their 2018 public statement about me, and also to correct it directly with the council members who had been contacted in 2018. I emailed them again, but never heard back. These remain my requests. However, I believe they should have taken these actions independent of my suggestion. End up this update (what follows is from May 2021).

We ourselves are learning through this process. At first, we tried to fit what happened with Dr. Azurdia into the framework of both “adultery” and “abuse.” Over time, we realized that those categories are mutually exclusive. We stopped using the term adultery because it is only accurate when both parties fully consent. Full consent is not possible when one of the two people is in a position of authority. On top of that, Dr. Azurdia’s deception and manipulation also rendered me incapable of making a truly free choice. Biblically, the only way for us to rightly understand what happened was to place it in the paradigm of a misuse of power by shepherds who are supposed to care for God’s people. We found Ezekiel 34, Matthew 7 and 18, and Acts 20 to be helpful. In addition, because of the ways Dr. Azurdia twisted Scripture when he spoke privately with me, we believe that many passages on false teaching also apply.

We believe it is imperative to understand these situations for what they are – not primarily sexual sin, but a dangerous abuse of spiritual authority – in order to protect others. We realized that using the term adultery is not only inaccurate, but actually causes harm. This mislabeling obscured Dr. Azurdia’s abuse, leaving others uninformed and therefore unprotected.  In his own “Open Letter of Confession”, Dr. Azurdia admits to his supposed “adultery,” but does not mention his abuse of power.

Therefore, I am making this public statement now to make Dr. Azurdia’s abuse clear in order to protect others from him. It has come to our attention that he has once again gained positions of spiritual power and authority. As previously mentioned, he is scheduled to speak at the Shepherd’s Tent Word Conference this June (although the TGC council member is no longer speaking there). He is listed as faculty at Vector Academy, which is a ministry of Grace City Church in Wenatchee, WA. We also know someone who recently witnessed Dr. Azurdia teaching a young adults’ class at that church. I feel compelled to warn others about a man who has proven himself to be a wolf in shepherd’s clothing. The damage done to me and to our lives by Dr. Azurdia is extensive. I still struggle with shame. I still struggle with the effects of trauma, such as panic, flashbacks, nightmares, mental fog, dizziness, and headaches (Update: Time and therapy, including EMDR, have helped heal these trauma responses). In addition to false teaching, he also accurately taught me many beautiful truths about Jesus, so when I meditate on them, I hear Dr. Azurdia’s voice in my head. Again and again I go through the painful process of having to separate the two. I do not want this to happen to anyone else. I am deeply concerned that Dr. Azurdia may even now be ministering to young women who have no idea of the danger he poses. Like me, they may believe his lies and fall prey to his abuse, all while wrongly blaming themselves for “adultery” or an “affair.” There may be others who have already been abused by him and need help in order to begin to heal.

If you are reading this and you’ve experienced similar things by any Christian leader, please know that you are not alone and that you are not to blame. There is hope in Christ. He is near to you, he loves you, and he will help you. The process of rescue begins with bringing the situation into the light by telling someone you can trust. I pray that God helps you do that today. If you need somewhere to turn, I recommend RVC (Restored Voices Collective) as a trustworthy source of information and support. If you need an attorney, I recommend Boz Tchividjian. If you would like to contact Richard and me, you can reach us at KatieandRichardRoberts@gmail.com